On Men and Abortion
I think there is a fundamental difference between a male pro-lifer expressing concern for the women and unborn babies harmed by abortion... and a male pro-abort who says females have a "duty" to abort!
Even a male pro-lifer who wants to see abortion made illegal (denying women the "choice" in choice-speak) is not nearly as reprehensible, in my opinion, as a male who wishes to force women to abort! That's obviously NOT pro-choice. AND any truly pro-choice person (especially a female) should be appalled at such an anti-choice/pro-abortion statement from a male. The fact that so few choicer females are upset by that sort of thing is quite revealing. A choicer female who read that remark plus your response posted a chastisement to YOU instead of the pro-abort male! I've been repeatedly told by choicers that women are NOT pressured to abort - that they freely "choose" to abort... Well, when confronted with evidence that some people expect women to abort, what does a choicer do? Do they object to such anti-choice bullies sharing the pro-choice label with them? Do they speak up against such blatant pro-abortion pressure? Nope. The pro-life female had to address that.
There is such hopelessness and pessimism revealed in jordan's posts. He sounds very depressed. I've heard similar pro-abort arguments from choicers before... the arguments themselves are not that uncommon... but reading jordan's posts I do get a sense that he sees absolutely no hope for change. Sometimes it's very difficult to get choicers to participate in charitable work that could help women feel they don't "have to" or "need to" abort. In fact, sometimes choicism appeals to people because it allows them to avoid helping women and children in other ways. Also people who are involved in charitable work usually are more optimistic and don't see abortion as a "solution" but more as a tragic symptom of the problems... However, sometimes people involved in caregiving or volunteer work suffer burn-out. Then they become very depressed and pessimistic. When they start to believe that the victims they are supposed to be helping would be better off dead, it's time for them to take a break. Of course there are also choicists who think it is a woman's "duty" to abort simply because they are elitists and would never dream of actually asking those unfortunate people how they can help... what they really want or need. We're all upset to various degrees by sad tales of human suffering. But some people are not so much disturbed by the fact that the victims are suffering as they are annoyed by having to see or hear about it. In such cases killing off the victims is seen as a "solution" since it protects the choicer from having to be confronted with what bums them out while enabling them to avoid any expense or effort.
I'm having trouble understanding the seemingly contradictory sentiments in this post (from the rock for life message board). I'd appreciate feedback from pro-choicers who might be able to exlain it for me:
"I know if I were to impregnate a girls today...I am not ready to be a father (you say then I shouldn't be having sex...maybe you're right but the bottom line is that I am). I would push for abortion but I know the final decision is up to the mother and whatever she decides, I will support it. It's easy for you pro-life men out there: when you knock some girl up, you don't stick around to deal with the shit...its her problem. Well let me tell you if its her problem then its her choice."
What I don't understand is how a "pro-choice" male can "push for abortion" yet still "support" whatever decision the woman makes. And the comment about pro-life males I really don't get... How does that make sense? Pro-life males have no legal right to prevent an abortion, and if the males "don't stick around to deal with the..." (I'm sorry I just have a real problem with calling pregnancy and/or innocent babies "shit") then how can those males be somehow preventing the women from aborting (um "pushing for" what they want)?
I'm really shaking my head on this one...
It's a virtual certainty that if the father pushes for abortion, the mother won't feel she can decide for herself. Pressure from fathers is a significant reason for a lot of abortions. So I think what that person said is contradictory. The mother isn't going to think the father is willing to support whatever decision she makes.
I have talked to a lot of women who said that if someone had just encouraged them, they would never have had an abortion. Pushing for abortion is the opposite of encouragement.
From Pro-Lifers Against Clinic Violence debate and discussion. Reprinted with permission.
I like what you said:
"he is pro-abortion and says that he's not such a jerk that he really would run away if the gal has the guts not to abort if he threatens to run away if she doesn't abort."
I think some guys want to at least pretend they are pro-"choice" so they hint, and "push", and worry the gal hoping she will "choose" to abort. That way they guy can pretend it was all her idea. I've met women at PAS support sites that say they didn't really want to abort... and the baby's father said something like he would support whatever she decided... BUT then the guy went on a major pout or fret-a-thon over how bad it would be for "the relationship" or finances if they had a baby right now. So the baby was aborted.
From Abortion News and Discussion Board reprinted with permission
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